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May. 10th, 2006 @ 02:44 pm (no subject)
Since I was banned from somewhere, I won't say where so don't ask, I couldn't post these quotes I found relevant to the debate we were having.


"Every generation needs a new revolution."

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition one redeeming feature. They are all alikefounded on fables and mythology."

"In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty."

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

"We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country."

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

"The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force."

All quotes by TJ.
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From:bluedeer
Date:May 10th, 2006 07:26 pm (UTC)
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All but the last are very good ones...I just have a minor problem with it. And it depends on which standpoint you take it from. If you take it from the standpoint that the spirit of the country is totally adverse to a large military force of another country's invasion, then it's fine. But if you say that the spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force from its own country, then you have a bit of an issue...remember, a military exists to defend a country from another country's oppression. Without it, it may as well be just opening its arms and saying 'C'mon in, we won't fight back!'. If /all/ countries decided to disarm and say that there was universally no need for a military, that'd be great, but as it is right now, as long as there is even one country with ambitions towards being the supreme ruler of the world, a working and sufficient military is necessary. And in this kind of thing, there's no such thing as having too large a force to defeat your enemies with. :)
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From:tyrc
Date:May 10th, 2006 09:20 pm (UTC)
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Throughout most of our history, we really didn't keep much of a military force, so this was accurate. We had to worry about, what, Canada, Mexico? :>
From:kk_kitsune
Date:May 11th, 2006 02:44 am (UTC)
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Originally, America wasn't supposed to have an army. Just a militia of citizens who would take up arms when invaded.
Of course, that also describes the original intent of America's foreign policy; it didn't have one, insofar as it wasn't meant to involve itself with other countries' politics.

Naturally, it didn't work out that way.
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From:bluedeer
Date:May 11th, 2006 09:31 am (UTC)
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Yes. But things have to evolve a bit. Many people didn't want to have to take time away from their farms and families to form a militia, so they decided that a full-time military was a better idea.

Nowadays, we have people who not only don't want a military, but they don't want any semblance of a militia, either. No guns at all. I think that's crazy.

As for the foreign policy, it was fine once upon a time when travelling to a new world took months at a time and nobody was sure what they'd find when they got there. :D
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From:bwcoyoten
Date:May 11th, 2006 10:45 pm (UTC)
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There are two things to bear in mind here. One is that Thomas Jefferson did not live in the twentieth century.

The second one is that "large" is not an objective term. It's very subjective. At the moment, few people would argue with the statement "the United States has a large military."

It'd be ludicrous to suggest that we don't. The question becomes "how large is too large?"
From:kk_kitsune
Date:May 12th, 2006 01:59 am (UTC)
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Yep. Sadly...
The militia idea still has some relevance, I think, but the state-run military is a good thing too.

They're known as idiots.

Hey, depending on what travel agency you've picked, it could still take months to get somewhere, and when you ostensibly arrive in China and see the Leaning Tower of Piza, you can bet you weren't expecting it... :D
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From:delphshadow
Date:May 16th, 2006 09:24 pm (UTC)
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All interesting enough. But the last one led to disaster as the anti-military Jefferson beached our navy and reduced our army. The result? The War of 1812 was almost a wall-to-wall disaster until Andrew Jackson's victory in New Orleans. Brilliant and talented tho Jefferson was, he didn't always do the smartest things. Interestingly enough, some of his atitudes live on in the current Democratic Party.